NYC Motorcycle Show 2019

Cross post from the Beemer list

Went up Saturday morning and took the ferry across.  Arrived there exactly at 09:30 right after the big rush when it opened, walked right in.  Without anything in particular I was interested in I just wandered around for almost three hours.  I was disappointed that Guzzi didn't show - and they wonder why they don't sell bikes.   Some of the custom bikes that JP Cycle had on display were unbelievable, granted I wouldn't want to own or even ride some of the choppers, but you have to admire the workmanship and sense of art that went into them.  JP also had a nice assortment of cafe type bikes that were a pleasure to look at.  There was an old Beemer with Firestone tires on it that caught my eye, I never thought about using them - they looked just right on an old bike.  The normal menagerie of 'biker' stuff and $29 dollar helmets.  The Hell's Angles had two locations selling T-shirts and other 'Support 81' stuff,  just the thing for us guys that live in Pagan territory to wear on a Sunday ride.  
One thing that did catch my eye was the F750GS Beemer, I didn't know it existed.  with  the low suspension it could fit he bill for an old guy/gal looking for something lighter and lower to the ground than a big GS.  They had one with the low seat and low suspension and I could easily flat foot it.
 
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Always interesting checking out what's out there in the motorcycle world, everything from 50cc scooters to the Slingshot were there for you to see, touch and maybe sit on.  Quite a few street bikes in the 400cc range if you looked for them, naturally the high end stuff was up front.

My main bitch about the show (other than the price keeps going up) is it would be better further into the winter, maybe after the first of the year.

I know other guys went up there - what were your thoughts about the show

We were toying with taking the kids up there if Grandma was available for dinner. But she had other plans, and Jenn was leaving Sunday for a conference so it all just seemed like more effort than it was worth just to hit the show.... but this would have been a good year.

Did you see the new Street Twin from Triumph or the W800 from Kawi???

I read that the Enfield 650's were 'strategically' placed across the isle from the Triumph Streets. Selling for nearly 1/2 the cost I wonder how many cross-shopped the two bikes? I think the Interceptor is rather fetching. Looks like a lot of motorcycle for just under $6k. Rider magazine seemed to like them - time will tell... [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

I thought the other thread said $6500.... but as I said there, I'm not sure I trust that manufacturer yet.

Rider said the Interceptor will have an MSRP of $5799 in solid colors. The 2-tone Continental will be $6499 if I remember correctly.

I hear you about both RE and the fact it's a first year model. Let's see if they improve their dealerships beyond mini-bike/go kart shops AND demonstrate reliability. They have a long way to go to prove they're really invested in the US market.

egschade wrote:Rider said the Interceptor will have an MSRP of $5799 in solid colors. The 2-tone Continental will be $6499 if I remember correctly.

I hear you about both RE and the fact it's a first year model. Let's see if they improve their dealerships beyond mini-bike/go kart shops AND demonstrate reliability. They have a long way to go  to prove they're really invested in the US market.

WOW --  a Guzzi owner badmouthing another manufactures dealer network.

Yeah, clearly a case of the pot calling the kettle black...

you are a bad influence Harry

Back to Harry's original post about the new BMW F750GS, this [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] says the engine IS detuned with claimed 77 HP compared to the F850 with 90 HP (as was done in the previous model).

By comparison the Triumph Tiger 800 XR (similar cast wheels and lower height) makes a claimed 94 HP that has much more character. The V85 compares favorably with these bikes in the spec department but as noted, does not have the dealer support a touring rider needs.

egschade wrote:The V85 compares favorably with these bikes in the spec department but as noted, does not have the dealer support a touring rider needs.

I would debate that, as I often do with my kids, is not a NEED, but a WANT.

In a couple of years I would have no problems getting a V85TT, dealer or no dealer nearby. I’ve done more then 130k miles with the two new Guzzi so far, and haven’t missed not having one near anyway.

Nick wrote:In s couple of years I would have no problems getting a V85TT dealer or no dealer nearby. I’ve done more then 130k miles with the two new Guzzi so far and haven’t miss not having one near anyway.

Besides, worse case scenario you have a failure you can't fix on the road, you rent a truck and bring it home. That COULD happen with any brand. Not every failure is going to be fixed in a day or two anyway.

Kev M wrote:Besides, worse case scenario you have a failure you can't fix on the road, you rent a truck and bring it home. That COULD happen with any brand. Not every failure is going to be fixed in a day or two anyway.

True but to Harry's point, you're far more likely to find needed parts and repair facilities for other brands. Have read stories of having to call Harpers or AF-1 have a part expedited to some dealer.

My Evo failed twice on me - one time a BMW dealer had close-enough parts (fuel line and filter) and the other was near home so my kid brought the trailer. Have not had a serious / stop riding breakdown on my last 3 Guzzis (knock on wood) because I learned you MUST do the preventative maintenance - like the startus interruptus fix - before they bite you in the ass. Watching for those needed updates for the V7 but so far haven't seen anything.

Kev M wrote:
Besides, worse case scenario you have a failure you can't fix on the road, you rent a truck and bring it home. That COULD happen with any brand. Not every failure is going to be fixed in a day or two anyway.

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I think the dealer situation comes back to the definition of 'touring Rider' .    Aside from Mad Mike I can't think of a Guzzi rider that tours on his Guzzi. Nova Scotia, Georgia or Iowa is only a days ride for many 'Touring Riders'.   Breaking down in Columbus Ohio could be just a days ride home to fix the bike, but try that from Edmonton, Alberta or San Francisco.   A 'Touring Rider' NEEDS to have access to parts and reliable mechanical help while on the road.   The old days of beating a bike back to life on the side of the road are long gone, swapping tires on an old machine with 400/18 or 120/18 tires on the side of the road was a breeze - try that with a 180/17.   Although most new bikes are extremely reliable if something goes wrong even if you have the ability you likely won't be carrying the tools to fix it.
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If your staying near home (subjective) a dealer network obviously isn't a big deal, but if you want to ride the PCH in the morning fog or see the Canadian Rockies and your riding there (alone) a dealer network is a very big deal.   Some day I might have another Goose but doubt it would be for 'touring', right now I stay involved because I know a few people in the Guzzi community.

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Very good. So it would be safe to say that, unless you are planning to ride to California or anywhere in the left coast, a Guzzi would be a safe bet.

And my message got cut off.
For the riding I do, (The farthest I’ve ridden has been Texas and Nova Scotia) a Guzzi is good. If I were to “Tour” I would still do it on a Guzzi or get a Harley. No BMW for me.

The conversation kind of drifted off the bike show to the value of an active dealer network to a touring rider, and then what is a touring rider.  By now most of us realize that an important part of riding a motorcycle is evaluating risk.   The fact that a machine could break down or a crash could break the bike is a risk, knowing that there is a dealer in a reasonable distance is a way of mitigating the risk.   Some people accept the risk, some don't even consider it, to some it's so serious that they stay home.

I tried to stay general and away from marques, I don't know the riding style or history of everyone on the list, but posts about long trips are not common on this list.   On long trips, I'm talking weeks on the bike and multiple thousands of miles.   I know the Blakes do long rides (on their Beemers) and Mad Mike (don't know what he was on)  but you develop a certain mindset when your on the road for a while that local (subjective) riders might not experience..

OTOH A big Goose (Dual Sport/ Sport Tourer) would make a great cross County bike if the dealer thing doesn't bother you.  IMHO the Harley would be a great bike to slab it out to Denver (if you kept the speed down, and it wasn't a hundred degrees) but West of the Front Range it would be too fat, heavy and slow handling to enjoy the mountain roads and too low and not enough suspension to explore the dirt ones.  

South West Colorado   --   Cordoba Pass  and they wouldn't move.  (this was the good part of the road)
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egschade wrote:

Kev M wrote:Besides, worse case scenario you have a failure you can't fix on the road, you rent a truck and bring it home. That COULD happen with any brand. Not every failure is going to be fixed in a day or two anyway.

True but to Harry's point, you're far more likely to find needed parts and repair facilities for other brands. Have read stories of having to call Harpers or AF-1 have a part expedited to some dealer.

My Evo failed twice on me - one time a BMW dealer had close-enough parts (fuel line and filter) and the other was near home so my kid brought the trailer. Have not had a serious / stop riding breakdown on my last 3 Guzzis (knock on wood) because I learned you MUST do the preventative maintenance - like the startus interruptus fix - before they bite you in the ass. Watching for those needed updates for the V7 but so far haven't seen anything.

Look, I find it warm and fuzzy to have a dealer network like Harley.

But your anecdote about fixing an EVO at a BMW dealer could just have easily been a Cali, CARC, or Smallblock - fuel hose and a filter is likely close enough there too.

On the flip side you could be like my buddy on his early-production, first year TC88 FXD - left on a Saturday for a 2-week trip to Texas.

Broke down on I95 that afternoon. Dealer was already closed (for the weekend).
Another Harley rider unloaded his bike from his trailer (insert joke) and let my buddy ride his bike to a hotel where he dropped off my buddy's bike.
Sunday came and went, dealer closed.
Monday came and went, no tech's worked on Monday.
Tuesday came and went, didn't have parts in stock (camshaft bearing failure, would later be a recall).
Wed came and my god they overnighted the parts, but I think they didn't finish the repair till Thursday.

That shit can happen to anyone, one any brand, regardless of dealer network and parts supply.

Not to mention in this day and age of reducing inventories and overnighting parts, most dealers don't keep much in stock anymore.

So really, unless you want warranty service or NEED a dealer for basic maintenance, well, you don't really need a dealer for touring or anything else anymore.

mogu83 wrote:

Kev M wrote:
Besides, worse case scenario you have a failure you can't fix on the road, you rent a truck and bring it home. That COULD happen with any brand. Not every failure is going to be fixed in a day or two anyway.

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I think the dealer situation comes back to the definition of 'touring Rider' .    Aside from Mad Mike I can't think of a Guzzi rider that tours on his Guzzi. Nova Scotia, Georgia or Iowa is only a days ride for many 'Touring Riders'.   Breaking down in Columbus Ohio could be just a days ride home to fix the bike, but try that from Edmonton, Alberta or San Francisco.   A 'Touring Rider' NEEDS to have access to parts and reliable mechanical help while on the road.   The old days of beating a bike back to life on the side of the road are long gone, swapping tires on an old machine with 400/18 or 120/18 tires on the side of the road was a breeze - try that with a 180/17.   Although most new bikes are extremely reliable if something goes wrong even if you have the ability you likely won't be carrying the tools to fix it.

Nahhh, you're confusing NEED and WANT just like my kids.

I also think you're dead wrong about "beating a bike back to life" and access to parts etc.

I mean,

1. Statistically it's been shown that modern machines don't break down as often as classic ones. So either the stuff you COULD have "Beat back to life..." is much less likely to break anyway OR it's the same stuff (ignition switches, and coils, and spark plugs, and fuel filters etc. are all just still those same simple and easy to fix things SHOULD they fail. So nix that concern.

2. As for access to parts, as I've already pointed out most dealers are stocking less and less anyway, and whether you're talking a BMW, Harley, or Guzzi there's a decent chance you're going to have to wait for an overnight part anyway.

I'd leave for CA tomorrow on any of my bikes (well, I might more likely take the RK because of the design and function of the bike, but if I had a Cali instead I'd just as likely take that.

Kev M wrote:

Nahhh, you're confusing NEED and WANT just like my kids.

1. Statistically it's been shown that modern machines don't break down as often as classic ones. So either the stuff you COULD have "Beat back to life..." is much less likely to break anyway OR it's the same stuff (ignition switches, and coils, and spark plugs, and fuel filters etc. are all just still those same simple and easy to fix things SHOULD they fail. So nix that concern.

2. As for access to parts, as I've already pointed out most dealers are stocking less and less anyway, and whether you're talking a BMW, Harley, or Guzzi there's a decent chance you're going to have to wait for an overnight part anyway.
I'd leave for CA tomorrow on any of my bikes (well, I might more likely take the RK because of the design and function of the bike, but if I had a Cali instead I'd just as likely take that.

I think your over using the 'Need and Want" cliche. We don't need health insurance, but we carry it.  Spare tires in cars, tools and etc in our saddle bags, rain gear, first aid kit, extra reading glasses, bottles of water all taking up space on my bike and I rarely have a use for it .  My 'Paranoia Bag' weighs at least 10 pounds, do I NEED it - no.   I also have a GPS, TPMS, Battery Monitor, fuel gauge. MPG calculator and other stuff that I don't NEED but sure makes me more comfortable when I'm riding some dirt road over a mountain 3,000 miles from home (alone).  A decent dealer network is just like those items, costs nothing and comes with the bike.

Statistics are just another tool for assigning risk.  More people die on motorcycles per mile than cars but we accept the risk and assume we'll beat the odds.  Statistically new bikes are more reliable than the old ones (as I stated) but they do break down, fall over and get hit by other vehicles (sometimes animals).  The parts you mentioned, except for spark plugs'  are usually  proprietary to the brand and model.  Try to get an ignition switch, or coil for a 2018 Guzzi at the local Advanced Auto. Try to wire a universal coil into a CAN Bus system.
And remember; Statistically Hillary should be living in the White House

I was talking to Jim Hamlin (SP) at the Ohio rally about parts availability on the new bikes, and he said that they have to wait for some stuff to come from Italy, usually accompanied by huge shipping fees.   I did heavy damage to my Beemer in Casper, WY. A new model that was out for less than a year, the dealer (Denver BMW) overnighted the parts and told me whatever they didn't have he would take off the one on the showroom floor .  Got to the shop noon Tuesday was on the road West Thursday noon.  That's a dealer network.

Again I don't know the riding history of the majority of people on this list.  KEV - did you ever ride cross Country, not Cross Country BMW but all the way across to the other ocean.

mogu83 wrote:
I think your over using ... I was talking to Jim Hamlin (SP) at the Ohio rally about parts availability on the new bikes, and he said that they have to wait for some stuff to come from Italy, usually accompanied by huge shipping fees.   I did heavy damage to my Beemer in Casper, WY. A new model that was out for less than a year, the dealer (Denver BMW) overnighted the parts

Meh, if you think you need a dealer network as much as health insurance at your age you've gone senile dude.

And sure you CAN break something that no-one has in stock, in the US, Italy, or Germany, it can happen on any bike. But it's really rare.

In hundreds of thousands of miles I've never broken something THAT obscure. But if it happens, no dealer is going to help and the truck is the answer.

You mentioned ignition switch, well I had one go out on me on a Guzzi Jackal on the Blue Ridge Parkway about halfway through VA, no dealer in 100's of miles, but there WAS an Autozone and guess what, they had what I needed to fix it. So I was on the road again in hours.


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mogu83 wrote:
Again I don't know the riding history of the majority of people on this list.  KEV - did you ever ride cross Country, not Cross Country BMW but all the way across to the other ocean.

I guess I don't feel the need to talk about it every time some discussion of touring comes up, but yes, I've ridden coast-to-coast-to-coast.

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This last one is a desert/dirt section of old 66, that was a wild ride on a Road King!

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I believe this is a classic example of 'thread drift'...

egschade wrote:I believe this is a classic example of 'thread drift'...

Whaaaat, you got something better to discuss about the NYC MC show at this point?

Kev M wrote:
Meh, if you think you need a dealer network as much as health insurance at your age you've gone senile dude.

Reread the post.  Just listing things we have but don't immediately NEED.  Sorry you missed the point.

Kev M wrote:And sure you CAN break something that no-one has in stock, in the US, Italy, or Germany, it can happen on any bike. But it's really rare.

Just repeating what a Guzzi dealer told me.  He seemed a little upset about it so I assume it happens more than occasionally.

Kev M wrote:You mentioned ignition switch, well I had one go out on me on a Guzzi Jackal on the Blue Ridge Parkway about halfway through VA, no dealer in 100's of miles, but there WAS an Autozone and guess what, they had what I needed to fix it. So I was on the road again in hours.

I would still consider the Jackel as a nuts and bolt type bike.  Again reread. I specifically referred to an 2018 CAN Bus bike.

Kev M wrote:I guess I don't feel the need to talk about it every time some discussion of touring comes up, but yes, I've ridden coast-to-coast-to-coast.

Coast to Coast to Coast   impressive, I've only ridden coast to coast (a few times) never saw it referred as C-C-C.   I guess people figured I walked back.