Cheap Stornellos

The stars align... Harry and I agree.

There are also a couple R1200's at Max BMW in NY - anyone familiar with them? I've driven past a million times to and from skiing in VT but have never stopped. Nice [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
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Max has an excellent reputation for sales and service. I think he has four locations now. I've only been in the one on Rt9 in Troy. I order all my BMW parts from them and have always received great service.
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That said, the red one is the later engine and has the upgraded drive train. The mileage between the two isn't an issue, their are people riding around with that basic power train with 200K on the machine.

Like the red one a lot. The [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] I posted earlier is nearby in Ledgewood and only has 2K miles on it - Not even broken in! Looks like someone has a low speed drop then parked the bike. Will see how it looks in person soon - maybe even this weekend.

One of the reasons I bought the R1200R is because you can drop it without causing $1,000 worth of damage.  generally I'll ride anyplace the bike will fit and the price you pay for that is the bike occasionally ends up on its side.  Mine has been on its side a few times.
 At this stage of the game I have a pretty good idea of what I want from a motorcycle and I tend to keep them a while.  That said, I have no problem throwing money into a new bike to make it mine.  The Beemer has a lot of the GS stuff on it, it wasn't cheap but it has earned its keep. I bought the bike to ride it, not look at it, I expect it to take me wherever I want to go and so far it has.
Scuffs in the BMW saddle bags can be sanded out as the plastic (?) bags are not painted and are black all the way through.  You can also sand and polish the bags till they look like they're painted black.

I don't mean to interrupt this BMW love fest,    , but here is a quote from someone on WG that I think it's appropriate for this thread:

"I like the new V7 (esp the Stone) because they check all the boxes for me, as I've stated many times before.

Huge fuel tank
Fuel injected
6-speed
Shaft drive
Cast wheels
Great torquey engine
Easy to work on
Lightweight
Looks great! Sounds great!  Drives great!
Unique in the biking world

Sounds like a great bike for everything that "motorcycling should be about" to me.  Fun!!"

Nick wrote:I don't mean to interrupt this BMW love fest,    , but here is a quote from someone on WG that I think it's appropriate for this thread:

"I like the new V7 (esp the Stone) because they check all the boxes for me, as I've stated many times before."

Not ruling the V7 out - just getting a handle on my options. At this point it comes down to the used R1200R or the new V7 Stone. Both will require a test ride before a final decision.

If it looks like I'm leaning towards a single do-it-all bike I am.
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Sorry about the Beemer thing, but good news is, if we weren't having the conversation Forumotion would likely remove this site because of inactivity.
BTW: How many Guzzi riders are showing up for breakfast Sunday ??

R9T Racer not a Guzzi V7 racer but looks fairly nice


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Look at the bike Harry, the bike!!! ;-)

I'm not sure which 'rear' she's looking at...

egschade wrote:

Nick wrote:I don't mean to interrupt this BMW love fest,    , but here is a quote from someone on WG that I think it's appropriate for this thread:

"I like the new V7 (esp the Stone) because they check all the boxes for me, as I've stated many times before."

Not ruling the V7 out - just getting a handle on my options. At this point it comes down to the used R1200R or the new V7 Stone. Both will require a test ride before a final decision.

If it looks like I'm leaning towards a single do-it-all bike I am.
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I think I'm on the record for thinking my V7 is the bees knees, the cat's meow, the cream cheese icing on my red velvet cake, the .... ok I'll stop.

That said, as much as I extol the virtues of the current Guzzi smallblock, I am almost 100% certain that I WOULD NOT own it as an only bike.

Now maybe if all my uses were 1-up (most are), and commuting, plus local, I could consider it.

But as reliable as mine has been (really it's been near perfect) I just think I would be longing for a little more comfort and capability on longer rides (basically involving some highway to get somewhere) and really except for bringing my 6 y/o daughter somewhere it is just too small to carry both ME and a passenger (YMMV, especially if you're less than 200# solo).

Honestly if I had to have ONE bike it would likely be a Sportster because of a combination of right size, right power level, dirt cheap, reliable, and every single possible part or accessory I could ever want at my fingertips. But shy of that I might be tempted by something like an R12 - or R9T (pure+HB racks/bags). And other than those two, maybe a V9 Roamer/Bobber for just a hair more power and size than the V7 (though I'd likely put a V7 tank on it for looks and range).

So that's it, my short list for only ONE bike:

* Sporty
* R9T/R12R
* V9 (w/ V7 tank)

THANK GOD I don't have to make that decision... hopefully I never will again (I tried it once, and an R1100RSa was the winner... it was a mistake for me).

Only bike a Sportster? I guess they're dramatically different than the Iron Head I used to ride. My kidneys are still shaking! Guess my past experience has biased me against them.

egschade wrote:Only bike a Sportster? I guess they're dramatically different than the Iron Head I used to ride. My kidneys are still shaking! Guess my past experience has biased me against them.

They are as different as they could possibly be while still sharing the same basic engine architecture and layout. The EVO was a step forward, but the rubbermount that debuted in 2004 turned it into a really nice overall platform and the very well running closed-loop EFI they added in 07 sealed the deal. By 2014 they went to CANbus electrics with available keyless ignition and ABS. They are ubiquitous and quite inexpensive used, and easy to find pretty much anything you might want for one.

I bought a 93 1200 new as my first new any motor vehicle and sold it about two years later with 40k miles on it, SWEARING I'd never own another Sporty for comfort/vibration reasons. Fast forward to 2004 and a Harley dealer threw me the keys to a then new 1200R Roadster and about a mile into the ride I KNEW I WANTED ONE.

I hesitate to call it butter smooth (when things like Road Kings, or better yet Gold Wings exist in this world), but my 07 is very comfortable, will run hours on the highway, solo or 2-up, is stable in cross winds, can still be reasonably hustled through a curve etc. It's very comparable in size and performance to my departed Jackal, but it's still in the garage because it gave me less than a fraction of the headaches of the Jackal.

A Sportster is a nice bike, if you can get over the stigma associated with it and with the whole Harley Davidson thing in general.  Generally nice people but one word I wouldn't associate with most of them is motorcyclist.
Again you have to separate the riders from an otherwise fine machine.

At this stage of the game I would have a hard time going to one bike because I enjoy so many aspects of our sport (Ok maybe for some a lifestyle) and one bike can't do it.

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I dunno, I've spent 25 years enjoying Harleys and not enjoying most of the marketing or "lifestyle" bullshit.

That said, in those years I've got an observation that I feel is largely from the inside, it's all bullshit. I'm not just talking about the marketing or the ignorant fucks who are probably just as stupid at their dinner table as they are on a motorcycle, I'm talking about the whole us vs them on both sides, and not just Harley, but BMW, Ducati, and JAPanInc and that whole bunch of butt-hurt snowflakes.

You hear the Harley thing the most because they are the biggest brand of street bikes in the US, because of the whole history of "Buy American" which we see largely in today as "MAGA".

But at the end of the day, MOST owners of MOST motorcycle brands are just owners, they don't ride much or far. YES, even BMW... so maybe there are 10% more BMW owners who do than Harley owners, but you don't notice because there are literally MILLIONS of Harley owners in the US* and maybe, JUST MAYBE a couple hundred thousand BMW** owners.

So even if only 1% (funny number if you think about it) of Harley owners really truly live on their bikes and care about their bikes like the BMW guys seem to try and lay claim, then well, do the math, there's more Harley guys riding like that then BMW guys.



*Harley worldwide sales figures from 1986 - 2016 = 5,853,255 bikes with traditionally about 30% exported, meaning ~ 4,097,278 sold in the US in that time frame. Source, Moco Annual Reports.

**BMW worldwide sales figures for 2016 represented the sixth straight record year of growth totaling 145,000 worldwide, but only 13,730 units for the US in the second best year ever. So by logical extrapolation we can say with strong expectations of certainty that BMW sold less than 300,000 units in the US between 1986 and 2016 (30 years x 10k bikes/year which is frankly probably VERY generous). Source - [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

So in our theoretical comparison with BMW having 10x a higher percentage than Harley "motorcyclists" that gives us:

300,000 x 11% = 33,000 serious riders.

vs

4,097,278 x 1% = 40,973 serious riders.

And I don't for a second think the percentage gap is even that big, but I'm feeling magnanimous.



Of course at the end of the day, I don't really give a shit, except to call a spade a spade.

If someone wants to own a bike just to park it in their living room and wear shirts go for it.

If someone wants to own a bike and ride it only on sunny Sunday mornings, then have at it!

If someone wants to own a bike and commute daily - kudos!

If someone wants to own a bike and tour the US 9 months of the year - I'm jealous!

If someone wants to own a bike and ride Iron Butts all year long - I have as little in common with you as the first guy on the list.

But hey, I don't care, or begrudge.

And the point?
I think were talking about motorcycles.
Quote [Again you have to separate the riders from an otherwise fine machine.]
Surprising your experience with Harleys only goes back 25 years.  My first bike was a Harley in 1961 a mere half century ago, back when everyone that threw a leg over a bike was a motorcyclist.
I miss the people from back then, not the crappy bikes, when you met someone on a bike you knew what you were dealing with.  I guess that happens to old people.

mogu83 wrote:And the point?

My point is a lot of people waste time judging other people - whether they are or are not a real ___________________.

mogu83 wrote:
I think were talking about motorcycles.

We were.... you brought up stigma and some "need" regarding your perception of the riders:

DaHarry wrote: a nice bike, if you can get over the stigma associated with it and with the whole Harley Davidson thing in general.  Generally nice people but one word I wouldn't associate with most of them is motorcyclist.
Again you have to separate the riders from an otherwise fine machine.

I just answered that thought.

mogu83 wrote:And the point?
Surprising your experience with Harleys only goes back 25 years.  My first bike was a Harley in 1961 a mere half century ago, back when everyone that threw a leg over a bike was a motorcyclist.

Why the surprise, I wasn't even BORN in 1961... and not for almost a decade after that....

mogu83 wrote:
I miss the people from back then, not the crappy bikes, when you met someone on a bike you knew what you were dealing with.  I guess that happens to old people.

You're not alone, a lot of people get this rose colored glasses, grass was greener thing going as they age.

Back to motorcycles... I've always liked the XR1200 X. There are a number of them in the area that appear to be largely stock and in good condition. Probably warrants a test ride... [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] looks pretty nice.

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egschade wrote:Back to motorcycles... I've always liked the XR1200 X. There are a number of them in the area that appear to be largely stock and in good condition. Probably warrants a test ride...

The XRX is kinda the Harley Griso... it felt pretty similar to the Griso 8V I helped service (and rode) for a friend, and moreso similar to my Buell S3T I had for a bit.

It's a nice bike, though I never warmed to the plastic tank and some of the looks.

I kinda prefer the current Roadster CX, but the riding position is likely more cramped on the CX than the XRX for you.

mogu83 wrote:A Sportster is a nice bike, if you can get over the stigma associated with it and with the whole Harley Davidson thing in general.  Generally nice people but one word I wouldn't associate with most of them is motorcyclist.
Again you have to separate the riders from an otherwise fine machine.

Sorry to but you on the defensive Kev but I really don't understand what that was all about.
If it's about being judgmental - well I am.  It starts when a man grabs my hand to shake it and if he looks me in the eye when he's doing it.
My OP was about the perception that Harleys are slow, undependable and ill handling. My premise was that the stigma was the result of a rider that usually wasn't interested in motorcycles but rather just wanted to be part of something so he/she never develops motorcycling skills.  I know dozens of people that fit that description, nice people, and friends, they consider themselves 'bikers' not motorcyclists.

My local dentist / friend used to ride a full-dress Harley. Even pulled a trailer he had custom made to carry his tandem bicycle. Over a 3-year period he and his wife rode it a couple dozen times. They were usually longer weekend trips but for the most part it sat in his garage.

I think this is the type of rider Kev was referencing. My buddy was clearly not a 'Harley' guy, but he does fit the stereotype of a casual Harley rider in my area: Professional, polite, engaging, all-around nice guy on a barely used, big $$ bike. He also admits that riding is not his passion, just something fun to do on perfect weather days.

He also feeds the perception that Harleys are slow and ponderous beasts because that's how he rides it - typically 5 or 10 MPH below the speed limit with poor lane discipline and little understanding of cornering. I needed to ride it home for him on one occasion and he was amazed at how fast I was going (which was a little above the speed limit).

I don't judge guys (or gals) like my friend, but he'll readily admit he's not a motorcyclist.

mogu83 wrote:

mogu83 wrote:A Sportster is a nice bike, if you can get over the stigma associated with it and with the whole Harley Davidson thing in general.  Generally nice people but one word I wouldn't associate with most of them is motorcyclist.
Again you have to separate the riders from an otherwise fine machine.

Sorry to but you on the defensive Kev but I really don't understand what that was all about.
If it's about being judgmental - well I am.  It starts when a man grabs my hand to shake it and if he looks me in the eye when he's doing it.
My OP was about the perception that Harleys are slow, undependable and ill handling. My premise was that the stigma was the result of a rider that usually wasn't interested in motorcycles but rather just wanted to be part of something so he/she never develops motorcycling skills.  I know dozens of people that fit that description, nice people, and friends, they consider themselves 'bikers' not motorcyclists.

No need to apologise, as I'm not on the defensive.

I'm pointing out that being judgmental is silly, and even worse when you go on shallow perception.

And most "motorcyclists" or "bikers" spew far too much on shallow perceptions.

That's all.

I likely know more people that own and ride Harleys than anyone on this list, I break bread with them, drink with them , ride with them and know most by name. They ride to lunch in the nice weather on Tuesday or Wednesday often I ride with them usually ten to thirty bikes.
Do I judge them - yes. Some are good riders most are decent and others are down right dangerous. On more than one occasion when near the dangerous ones and things got hairy I've told the guy next to me 'I'm low on gas' and left.
I only ride close to people I trust.

Only one of the reasons I've ridden over 50 years.

Now back to HELPING Eric

mogu83 wrote:I likely know more people that own and ride Harleys than anyone on this list, I break bread with them, drink with them , ride with them and know most by name. They ride to lunch in the nice weather on Tuesday or Wednesday often I ride with them usually ten to thirty bikes.
Do I judge them - yes.

Talk about defensive?!?

Why would you assume this?

Kev M wrote:
Why would you assume this?

What? Or is this a last word problem LOL