Tubeless wheels

For those of you that think that, like the fabled unicorn, tubeless Guzzi V85 wheels really don't exist:
The Dealer in Monmouth (Indian) was upset about the 10 month wait.  I wasn't. 
They have a lot to learn about Guzzi spare parts availably.
Last month I called Piaggio in NYC and pissed and moaned about not getting my parts, they were very sympathetic. 
I said, I was thinking about trading in the Goose on a Triumph. 
Less than a month later, I get my parts. 


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Planning on ordering them from Hamlin’s. Who’s doing the install for you?

Cam3512 wrote:Planning on ordering them from Hamlin’s.  Who’s doing the install for you?

My mechanic.
All the little parts are ordered and should be here next week.  I'm mounting Metzeler Tourance Next tires, they're a 90/10 and have been getting good reviews on the heavier and more powerful R1250GSA where their mounted from the factory.  The big issue will be mounting the rear tire it's a 150 rim and there isn't a lot of drop in the middle of it.

I ordered a set which are supposed to arrive July. Planning to do my own install. Undecided about tires - the OEM Anakees are pretty good for my riding and depending on tread life I may just put those on the new wheels. If I do decide on new tires I may go with the Pirelli Scorpion STR which is a 70/30 with better lateral grip on loose surfaces.

I'm basically a street rider and like to use the bike in the turns, I realize the V85TT isn't a canyon carver, but I never had a warm fuzzy feeling about the Anakee's in a turn.  Also IMHO Michelin has a real problem with tire noise, had it on my Road 5s and the Anakee is loud also.
I think the only thing your giving up with less aggressive tires is performance in sand and mud, street tires can handle gravel as long as you don't mind (and have room for) the bike moving around a little.

It's weird this is the first bike that I can't find torque information on.  Not such a big deal but would be nice to know what the torque requirements for the brake rotors was.   I've done similar ones without using a torque wrench but it's nice to know.  The old 'tighten it till it squeaks' doesn't work well when your going into aluminum and alloy.

I'd wager a call to Hamlin's would get you an answer...

Torque - There is a reference to torque in the Shop manual but only by the size of the bolt, nothing for front or back axels (they refer to the axel as a pin ??).  The axel nuts are very very tight, I'd suggest breaking them loose at least once in the garage so you can access what tools you should be carrying for on road repairs.

The Rims - First class design.  The center has a big drop down that makes mounting the tire relatively easy (compared to the Beemer that has no drop down and are impossible to do by hand).  My situation was complicated because I installed inside the tire pressure monitors, that made mounting the tires a bit of a chore.   I found a great tire lube for the rims and tires called 'Bullsnot', comes in an aerosol can.  Super slippery, doesn't stain and wipes off easily when your done.   I took the time to find the heavy spot on the rim (without the tire) and mounted the red spot there.  Tires were almost in balance without any weights.
Letting the tires sit for a few days to make sure there are no leaks.

Next step wiring the TPMS to the bike.  Requires taking stuff off the front so I can get into the dash unit to pick up 12V.

Mounted the rims today and want to pass on a few thoughts to the V85 guys.
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The rear wheel is super easy, You will need a 30mm socket and a 10mm and 8 mm hex key (I use sockets) a 3/8 breaker bar for the sockets.  Back out the 8mm pin that holds the brake, remove the 26MM bolt and slide the axel out.  Nothing in the way pull the wheel out.
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The front wheel requires a little work.  You'll need a 5mm hex , a 30mm socket, a 13mm socket.
Disconnect the ABS wire from the clips that hold it to the bike.  Don't disconnect the ABS, your just trying to get slack in the wire.  Remove the four 13mm bolts that hold the calipers on, slide them back off the rotors, Ok to let them hang (don't even think about touching the brake lever when the brakes are in this condition. Crack the 30mm, axel nut loose, loosen the four 5mm axel pinch bolts, remove the 30mm nut and washer, push the axel out to the left.  The wheel slides right out.
Now the rub; Take a look at your front axel and those two curious slots cut in it, maybe some kind of tool fits in their but I can't imagine what it would do. The axel is a tight fit and doesn't slide out well (unlike my Beemer it doesn't screw out, it pushes out).  You can back the nut almost off and tap it (use lots of discretion) to get the axel started but you still can't grab it and those slots are useless.  My old Beemer has two holes where those slots are and you can stick a screwdriver in there and work the axel out.  With my tool box close at hand I found a way to get the axel out without scratching anything, but if I was on a dark road in the middle of nowhere this would have been a problem.  Next time I'm in there I might drill two 3/16 holes 90° to those slots so I can drop a screwdriver or Hex key through so I have something to pull on.  Hopefully with the tubeless tires I won't have to remove the wheel on the road.
Another weird thing - their are no pinch bolts on the rear axel, if that 26mm nut comes loose the axel could come right out.  Not likely, but first time I've ever seen a motorcycle without some kind of back up in the event the axel nut fell off.

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I never seen pinch bolts on a swingarm.

My /5 has one, the little Honda has a castle nut with a cotter pin and I'd have to pull the Valkyrie apart to even get a good view of the axel nut.
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Would the shock tool work on those slots?

egschade wrote:Would the shock tool work on those slots?

Even if it did fit (it won't) that would just turn the axel and wouldn't pull it out.  If you look at the picture of the /5 you'll see the holes I referenced to, where you put the screw driver from the tool kit to pull the axel out.   I know, different time and ancient technology but at least they gave what you needed to get off the road if you broke down.

mogu83 wrote:My /5 has one, the little Honda has a castle nut with a cotter pin and I'd have to pull the Valkyrie apart to even get a good view of the axel nut.
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That's only because BMW tries too ad as many parts as possible.

Mac wrote:

mogu83 wrote:My /5 has one, the little Honda has a castle nut with a cotter pin and I'd have to pull the Valkyrie apart to even get a good view of the axel nut.
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That's only because BMW tries too ad as many parts as possible.

That must be the reason for such a complete tool kit that comes with the bike, and an owners manual with directions on how to remove tires, valve clearances, torque specs for common nuts and bolts and capacities for drives, engines and transmissions.
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With the Guzzi I received two hex keys, and a manual with print so tiny I can't even read it with a magnifying glass, no info on any Maintenance, no list of capacities no torque specs on stuff like axel bolts, or oil drain plug, very basic stuff.  Is it possible that the company thinks anyone that buys a Guzzi isn't capable of doing even basic maintenance.
Just sayin       

mogu83 wrote: >SNIP<  Is it possible that the company thinks anyone that buys a Guzzi isn't capable of doing even basic maintenance.
Just sayin       

I think that's true of most things you buy today. My 2019 Mazda user manual has all sorts of detail on how to use the "Info-tainment" screen and Google Drive but service light comes on you're advised to 'contact your dealer for service'.

I think the days of people wanting to understand how something works and (gasp! )repair it themselves are largely gone. Most of my peers take their motorcycle or car for repair if something needs maintenance or repair - and ALL their children do. Pulling an axle doesn't matter if the tow service is available. I know, that's not always the case and you should be able to fix a flat yourself, but the fact remains that most riders will call the truck. This was just posted on Wildgoose re: V85 rear seal oil leak: " I’m not mechanically inclined so I’m not sure exactly what 'over packed with grease' meant, but it turned out to be nothing."

In the end it comes down to culture and money. Most people don't repair - they replace and if they do repair, they hire someone to do it. Manufacturers know this and have cut way back on things like tool kits, center stands as standard and owner manual details to save money. If you are a DIY person, you have to pay extra for the stuff that used to come with the bike.

Harry - did you notice any difference with the tubeless wheels? Un-sprung weight must be down.

egschade wrote:Harry - did you notice any difference with the tubeless wheels? Un-sprung weight must be down.

They are lighter and I notice they run cooler, as far as un-sprung weight I guess it's down but I'm kind of brain dead about things like that.
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STORY:  My first BMW rally I was invited to stay in a dorm type cabin the last night of the rally, because the "Mother of all Storms' was coming.  I accepted. The 'heated' discussion was about if you swapped the 3mm steel spokes on your bike to 4mm stainless would the un-sprung weight change and change in flex on the spokes negatively change the handling of the bike.  I was impressed figuring these guys are really hard core.  On the ride home the next day I discovered that none of them could find their way through a turn, even if you drew it on the road for them.   Decades later now and they still ride their bikes like they were driving a mini-van.  I'm not an engineer, a racer or a suspension expert, I know enough to keep the bike from acting freaky in a bumpy turn and I'm not afraid to push one through a turn.   So I rarely give an opinion on un-sprung weight, rebound and compression dampening, pre-load, understeer, oversteer or many other highly technical things people on these lists seem to be well versed on.

Just sayin   

Back in the day we used to call that 'bench racing'. Argue/debate on pretty much anything with no intention or in many cases the ability actually do anything remotely close to the topic.

I ordered tubeless wheels on 4/16 from AF-1 (Hamlin's couldn't offer free shipping to my home). Latest order status is delivery on or about 7/6.

I'm tempted to cancel and just seal the wheels myself.

Cam - which tires did you decide to buy?

Just so happens when scheduling my 12K service (7/21) with John, I asked about the tubeless wheels. They have 3 sets on order, and someone backed out of one. All the rears are in, still waiting on the fronts . So I snapped up that third pair.

Putting on Michelin Road 6’s. Hopefully the front wheel comes in before I get up there for the new tires. I’m riding down to Jacksonville Florida in October, and my front Anakee is wearing kind of weird. Never did like them anyway.

Timing is everything! I talked it over w/ John before deciding to go with AF-1. Hope the front shows up in time for your trip to CT.

I'm leaning towards Pirelli Scorpion Rally STRs. Just a little more lateral bite in the slippery stuff than the Anakee, which is the only complaint I have of the OEM tires. Did you consider the Scorpion Trail II? They were great on my Griso and have a little more meat on them than sport-touring tires.

egschade wrote:Timing is everything! I talked it over w/ John before deciding to go with AF-1. Hope the front shows up in time for your trip to CT.

I'm leaning towards Pirelli Scorpion Rally STRs. Just a little more lateral bite in the slippery stuff than the Anakee, which is the only complaint I have of the OEM tires. Did you consider the Scorpion Trail II? They were great on my Griso and have a little more meat on them than sport-touring tires.

Naturally at a BMW rally you are going to be exposed to the GS guys talking tires.  The honest ones admit they are just using street tires if they can find the size.  The others that may or may not be real Adventure Riders talk off road in various configurations (50/50, 75/25/80/20/90/10) I heard good things about the Scorpion Trails.  
Something to consider with MC tires. The higher the speed rating the less rubber you get on the tire, weight is a big factor when you get higher speed and the best way to get rid of it is thinner rubber.  So if you don't intend to be doing any extended 150MPH runs (how much time do you REALLY spend above 100 MPH) you may not want to buy W rated tires.  Most of us would be perfectly safe on S or H rated tires and gat better mileage than the real high speed stuff.

I only take long, heavily loaded rides once or twice a year with most of my riding being back roads. Those rides are occasionally mixed surface  and typically under 4 hours with a break in the middle. I'm sitting here waiting for the tubeless wheels and questioning the $1k+ investment.

Do I really NEED tubeless wheels for the way I ride? I'm beginning to think I'm gilding the lily...

You won't need them, 'till you get a flat....
I'm thinking of taking my Eldo to Virginia, but what if I get a flat on the BRP, like it happened to me in the past? That could ruin that ride ;-)