Ethanol free gas

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Ethanol free gas

Post by egschade on Tue Jan 30, 2018 7:05 am

Was reading on a couple of the forums that running ethanol free gas during engine break-in may be beneficial for a number of ill-defined reasons. While I don't buy in to those reasons it did get me thinking about non-E gas. I was surprised to see that [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] lists several places in NJ including both local airports and a marina in Kenvil. Wawa outside of NJ also sells E-free gas but not in any of the stations just across the river from NJ (gee, I wonder why?).
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Re: Ethanol free gas

Post by Kev M on Tue Jan 30, 2018 7:20 am

First, it's a fools errand and I can't imagine what ridiculous reasons posters on forums are coming up with to suggest a need to avoid ethanol for break-in. They are idiots, really.

Break-in, with regards to the fuel system and motor are almost completely things of the past.

I'm no fan of ethanol because of a few things (lower HC content, potential to absorb water or, specifically for older machines, to make gunk soluble again). But none of that has anything to do with break-in.

You won't find non-ethanol just about anywhere in the tristate area other than for "off-road" use for a multitude of reasons including regulations (especially for oxygenated fuel for winter use, remember ethanol is an oxygenate and that's one of the reasons it has a lower HC density, but other reasons include lack of demand and refinery access to non-ethanol products).

No matter, don't waste your time even worrying about such nonsense.

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Re: Ethanol free gas

Post by egschade on Tue Jan 30, 2018 7:32 am

Kev M wrote:No matter, don't waste your time even worrying about such nonsense.

Driving up the forum's page count is never a waste of time, nor is creating stimulating conversations among the (few active) participants.

Also, w/o a bike and given the crappy weather, what else is there to talk about?
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Re: Ethanol free gas

Post by mogu83 on Tue Jan 30, 2018 7:35 am

I looked into this once.  I don't know if it's a law or just an agreement but you can't get ethanol free gas in New Jersey.
The airports are dicey because it's usually aviation gas and they don't pay road tax on it,much like farm gas.  Most airports you can get 101LL gas also but it can be a legal problem putting it in a road vehicle.  But it burns great.  In my area they bring the fuel to the plane so there is no chance to buy the gas, but I understand in  some small air ports they have a pump that works with a credit card, all you need is a 5 gallon can.

When you go through the Midwest, were they're making a fortune off ethanol type gas almost every station has 89 octane no ethanol gas.  In some States the pump has a decal saying for marine engines and vintage vehicles only, but no one checks.
In Jersey where we eat most of the corn we grow, you can't get non ethanol gas.  Somehow, someone is making money out of it.

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Re: Ethanol free gas

Post by Kev M on Tue Jan 30, 2018 8:40 am

More thoughts on Ethanol.

I was working in the marine industry (Seloc Publications) when Ethanol started to become common around the country.

The biggest issues we saw were really based on two or three things.

1. Boats and their motors tend to be MUCH older than cars (and even bikes I think) so there were more of them around with old types of rubber in the fuel system or worse actual fiberglass tanks or the like that could be attacked by the ethanol.

2. The old motors with heavy seasonal use had years and years of seasonal use and storage. That's so many chances for fuel to evaporate and leave behind the sludge of additives that can harden into junk. That meant these deposits in the float bowls and tank. One unique problem with Ethanol is that it can take those hard deposits and make them soluble again, flowing just enough to get into and clog fuel filters and other parts of the fuel system. Or just dislodge the hard deposits and let them move in the bowl enough to clog a jet.

3. The marine environment in and of itself means more exposure to water and often longer periods of seasonal storage with temperature swings. Combine with, in many cases, fuel tanks that were hundreds of gallons in size means more chances of water contamination.

Anyway, Yamaha and some of the other marine manufacturers saw some of these problems, even through their warranty systems (2 could effect old boats with new powerheads, 3 could effect new boats too). So some of them issued TSBs (Technical Service Bulletins) on how to deal with it.

BTW, none of them were concerned about break-in or even continued use of ethanol on new motors, with the exception of those circumstances above. For cases where gunk was potentially an issue Yamaha (and I think other brands) SPECIFICALLY recommended Star Tron.

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Re: Ethanol free gas

Post by egschade on Thu Feb 01, 2018 8:47 am

This sticker wan't on the demo bike. Hope this wasn't just stuck on my some import bureaucrat.

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Re: Ethanol free gas

Post by Kev M on Thu Feb 01, 2018 8:54 am

egschade wrote:This sticker wan't on the demo bike. Hope this wasn't just stuck on my some import bureaucrat.

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That or the equivalent has been on every bike, every marine motor, and I think on every car that's not also rated as a flex-fuel vehicle or a diesel (or at least in all their owner's manuals) for a decade or more.


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Re: Ethanol free gas

Post by egschade on Thu Feb 01, 2018 8:57 am

Well, in 45 years of riding and buying, this is my first ever brand-new bike. I never saw this sticker before prob because it's so obnoxiously placed the original owners removed them within the first 48 hours (I'm shooting for 24).
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Re: Ethanol free gas

Post by Kev M on Thu Feb 01, 2018 10:02 am

egschade wrote:Well, in 45 years of riding and buying, this is my first ever brand-new bike. I never saw this sticker before prob because it's so obnoxiously placed the original owners removed them within the first 48 hours (I'm shooting for 24).

Yeah, and a huge PIA... use a little heat, maybe a little goof-off or WD-40 too.

Me, I just have Jenn do it.

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Re: Ethanol free gas

Post by mogu83 on Thu Feb 01, 2018 11:49 am

Eric,
Here's the answer to your question about breaking your engine in on non-ethanol gas.  I guess if you really love your bike you'll take the effort to do this. 600 mile break in at 40MPG you'll only need 15 gallons.
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Seems time consuming but for the next couple of months you likely won't be riding much.

Will you be switching to a hi-flow K&N filter after break in.??

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